Rule dicussion: T01-a recorded replays

Rule T01-a states: “The referees will not review any recorded replays.” I can understand the motivation for this rule: students showing refs bad quality cell phone video trying to point out a bad call. Multiple times back when I competed in vex, I wanted to do this myself.

With the introduction of event video streaming, like is done in most competitions in the state of Wisconsin, I would propose that an event video recording be able to be used for reviews. These video streams could be considered non-biased and could help improve rulings. Though a system would have to be designed around this: how to request review, what is needed in review to overturn something…


Actually the main motivation is not about kids showing poor quality videos.

It is mainly because of the extra time required to review the videos.
And if video replays are allowed, the worst case scenario will be teams coming to the referees after every match, trying to dispute the calls. Just imagine the implications for the EPs in doing the schedule and the logistic.

Think Worlds will need to extend by at least 2more days to accommodate all the request for reviews (and some possible replays as well).

I agree with @meng the main problem is time. however, i do believe that video replays would be beneficial if they are not abused. a possible solution is to limit the number of calls made, taking inspiration from other sports, a system like only one call per team for the entire tournament, or only call per alliance and limit it to elimination.

kinda off topic, but I saw a lot of problems with game objects being scored incorrectly and teams arguing that for a game like starstruck, a really simple solution would be to put RFID tags on each game object and a sensor that automatically counts the score. this might not be cost effective for smaller tournaments, but for something like worlds, eliminating the time spent counting score and the volunteers required for the task could be worth it.

The issue for RFID tags is where you put them on the scoring objects and how that impacts how they are scored. If a scoring object is in two zones, it gets scored in the higher of the two. There is no simple way to do this with RFID tags and have it consistently correct.

I definitely think reviews should only be allowed in elimination, similar to the timeout rule with only 1 allowed. Expanding on this, however I think refs should also be allowed to review a replay, again, elimination only, given the increased load on them this year. A side note, a challenge must be used right after the match is over/ when a dq or non dq is called.

As for now, an issue would also be that not all events and/or states are video streaming. So one would allow the video challenge in some places but not others? I think it is good for our students to learn that, after they have made their case, the referee’s decision is final and to move on. Even in pro sports, the replay is not always conclusive and the time it takes to review the replays sometimes is beyond absurd. I don’t think it is fair to put the referees in that position. And yes, I am the mentor to the team that posted the “Unjust Disqualification” thread. As much as we want life to be fair and equitable (and we try as best we can), it is not always fair. It is a great life lesson to be able to handle perceived injustice or unfairness with dignity and grace.

The odd thing was at worlds for NBN the ref asked the team my son was on if they would agree to using video replay to fix a gross scoring error. So it is not a hard and fast rule. It is to take pressure of the event partner. And I’m fine with it.

However, I still see situation where it would be useful. It would be useful for correcting errors in Skill or when scores are entered reversed in match play. Last year we saw an alliance total dominate a match but the scores were entered flipped. Luckily the event partner was more concerned on getting it right than disallowing recorded replay. This year my son’s team had their best driver skills run, were told the score but the event did not enter it. They were the last run of skills, right before matches started. So it wasn’t until lunch that the event displayed skills rankings again. They refused to look at video to fix their issue.

Like others have said, I use these events as a learning experience for team. “You are responsible for making sure everything is recorded correctly.” Mentors remind them not to leave the match area until the ref tells you the score and you agreed with it. If you don’t, respectfully tell them why you think it is different. And accept their answer regardless of your agreement.

Do they do this, not as often as they should. But they get away with it. Half the tournaments we go to have really good refs who understand the rules and read the forum Q&A.

This is quite an apt example of “If you give them an Inch, they’ll take a mile”.
If we look at replays for the critical elimination round matches, next we’ll have to do the critical qualification matches, e.g.: when 1st and 2nd ranked teams Vs each other…

Right now I think the rule is fine as is.
Although a vast majority of events aren’t streamed a rule change wouldn’t affect them, It’s usually the critical events that are, such as Nationals or States. These are the toughest events for the volunteers to run, and it’s hard enough as is too keep events running smoothly and on time, while keeping everyone happy.