Rulings at Benton county fair

That also struck me as odd but couldn’t put my finger on it until I saw you say it.

Probably best to wait until after v2.0 of the manual is released.

image

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there also seems to be a misinterpretation of what needs to happen for the autonomous win point. The refs are ruling it as if the rings have to be on the post of the alliance goals, when in reality it just has to be scored in the goal somehow.

I can’t even blame the rules for this one, since it’s clearly not stated in the manual that it must be on the branch.

It just seems to be like the manual and the q&a’s needed to be read more thoroughly by referees at this event, as there appears to be incorrect rulings of all kinds of things, not just confined to auton scoring. All the more reason imo that sig events shouldn’t happen this early. And perhaps that the gdc needs to do a better job getting the referee training videos made before events start happening.

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Yea I mentioned that in my op that is what I was talking about them specifying on instead of in, which might be even more confusing.

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One of the reasons why I feel that signature events should not be worlds qualifying events.
And to rub salt into it, the number of spots allocated is just way too generous… and at the same time, small regions need to scrap and fight for that 1 (or 2) spot(s).

High time that REC should relook and revamp the worlds-qualifying system?
But think i will leave all these in a separate thread.

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On that note, when are the number of world spots per region released?

The spots allocation will not be too far off from previous years. Unless there is a huge change in the number of registered teams.

So for reference - last season, SG has 1 HS + 1 MS.

We had 3 teams in HS last worlds, but the additional 2 were via online challenges.

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We are still waiting on updated regions to be released, so probably then

I assume the RECF hasn’t put out any sort of date or timeline for when it would be released?

They should be released with the Qualifying Criteria in September 2021

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$200 Registration
World Championship Qualifying
“Go in eyes wide open and have fun!”

please try and step in the shoes of a competitor here. I get being lenient with rulings and staff, but complete violations of the game manual at an event of this caliber (and the fact that the RECF are approving them) is a sad sight

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I do view this from multiple viewpoints.

Signature Events caliber is about the context of the venue - not so much about the ability of teams playing. Otherwise, it would have a qualification criteria to register, like Championship events. Teams are able to participate if they are willing to travel long-ish distances and pay the entry fee. Nice that there are four spots to Worlds. Many debate whether this takes away from the purpose of Signature Events, to be a fun exciting event where you meet teams outside your regions and get to experience the richness of the event’s location.

The interpretation of some of the rules leave a lot to be desired, but some were explained during Drivers Meetings, such as autonomous platform scoring, which teams adapted to during the tournament. To be sure there were missed calls. The interpretation problem comes down to a vacuum about specifics interpretations that are yet to be answered to the satisfaction of teams on the Q&A, and some nuances about “in” vs “on” use for scoring of rings (in/on) goals.

So I understand some teams are upset, they paid $200 so they can qualify to Worlds at this event. That is a very narrow perspective of participating at any events. Open your eyes and have fun.

I know this because either my teams or myself have had those feelings in the past, and likely to have it in the future. How you bounce back is what matters.

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Wait, teams were told about these inconsistencies during the drivers meeting and waited until their matches to complain? Or did they complain during the meeting?

Would be nicer if the rules were followed properly.

Realistically, I don’t think all the fault can be put on the refs, since there is no referee training guide and the rules can be confusing, but come on, there is direct confirmation from the GDC saying elevation points do not count for auton, yet you go against that citing that a game from 2 years ago said something else? Really?

I do think this is mainly on the REC, as not only did they allowing a qualifying event to happen this early with so much rule ambiguity, they also said to allow the incorrect rulings to continue. If it was only an hour and a half into the event, there was no reason it couldn’t restart. Just cut the time that was originally allocated for skills only, and run all the day 1 matches until then.

Obviously nothing is going to be changed now, but I would hope REC looks at this event and changes how sig events work in the future.

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Just about every out of state team talked to the refs after the drivers meeting. My op was made during the first qualification match after we discussed it with them. Later rules like the definition of balanced were not discussed in the driver’s meeting and were not mentioned in the op.

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I mean, it is in the reveal video that way.

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That I am not sure when objections came about.

Totally agree. For soccer referee certification courses, it is really amplified to not make up explanations, just state the infraction that in your opinion was infracted. Then move on. Like with soccer, the decision by the referee (in most cases) is final. Now I say in most cases, because there is the ability to replay matches under extremely limited situations in VRC. These are described in <G20> in particular rules issues:

B. Match Affecting game rule issues.
i. Head Referee disables a Robot for a misinterpretation of a rule violation.
ii. Head Referee starts the Driver Controlled Period of the Match without determining the outcome

of the Autonomous Period winner.
iii. The field is reset before a score is determined.
[edit - misread - i. the issue with matches was not disablement of robot due to misinterpretation of rules violations… so <G20> does not apply here. removed incorrect statement below.]

I just want to be clear that Early Season in North America, is not so Early season for other regions around the Globe who are in full swing of competition.

So here is the rub - it is not official until it is in the Game Manual or Q&A.

That said, I think we really need Referee Certification and Training a lot sooner, like a month after reveal. Certainly, having these resources available before Qualifying events is important for consistency in officiating at events.

Also, another point that was that the rationale about what was the legal way based on passed events should not happen. Each season is its own context. So what was legal interpretation in Turning Point may not be legal for Tipping Point.

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I’ve been saying that someone needs to make a Q&A that is just a list of old Q&A’s about G or R rules and just ask if they still apply, would remove a lot of gray area (assuming that question would ever get answered, which seems less and less likely as the days go by)

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Event is starting back up today, they’ve announced that they will begin properly applying <sg3>, but will be continuing to improperly score autonomous for the sake of consistency. Which, imo, is the best they can really do at this stage in the event. It would have been far better if they had restarted earlier yesterday when these problems were brought to light, but it’s too late to do that now, and changing how they score auton mid-competition would probably do more harm than good, even if the way they score it is wrong.

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Interesting point at today’s event - VRC HUB game manual is not a copy of the official Game Manual - this is a HUGE problem as teams use it as a reference and not see official changes to game rules, such as <SG3>.

ugh.

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would probably do more harm than good to be honest. best to just keep it consistent

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it would punish all the teams that unknowingly made auton routes that take advantage of the platform, which I blame not on the event but on the rules for being so unclear about what counts during auton. The large majority of teams do not read the forum or the q&a’s, and they’d have no idea that anything wouldn’t count for points in auton, because I would never expect someone to realize that just by themselves from only the manual.

I mean even if they had scored auton right from the start, it still would have punished a lot of teams that had no idea that the auton route they worked hours on wasn’t worth any points. Very unfortunate that the gdc didn’t clear that up before events started. I very much hope that this event will convince them to act.

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