it says regardless of where the goal ends the match, but it doesn’t specify that the goal has to be at the end of the match in order for rings on it to count for points.
So rings on alliance goals are worth points always, not just at the end of the match. But they are the only points to work this way, everything else does depend on it being at the end of the match.
I can’t find where in the manual it says something similar to “rings on alliance goals are worth points always”. The closest thing I can find is just the scoring notes about rings only being scored if they’re on scored mogos, but that doesn’t specify which type of mogo.
in the scoring notes:
Each Ring which is Scored on any other Mobile Goal Branch is worth three (3) points.
this means rings are always worth points, it never specifies that a ring has to be at the end of the match to be worth points.
However, rings on neutral goals are only worth points for the alliance that the neutral goal is scored for, and neutral goals do require being at the end of the match to count for points.
A Mobile Goal is considered Scored in an Alliance Home Zone if, at the end of the Match, any part of the Mobile Goal Base is at least partially within the Alliance Home Zone (i.e. “breaking the plane” of the Zone).
which is why rings on netural goals are worth nothing in auton. They are still worth points, just not to any alliance since the goal cannot be scored for either alliance.
which only leaves rings on alliance goals worth points, because rings on alliance goals do not require anything from the alliance goal to count for that alliance.
What about this then? This is what doesn’t specify which mobile goal has to be scored. I’m looking at the left-most box specifically
I see my mistake I believe
The end of the match doesn’t apply to rings on alliance mogos
no it doesn’t. Which is why rings are always worth points.
However,
Each Mobile Goal that is Scored in an Alliance Home Zone is worth twenty (20) points for that Alliance. That Alliance also receives the points for any Rings which are Scored on or in that Mobile Goal
states that the points the rings are worth is are only given to the alliance that the goal is scored for. And since neutral goals only meet the definition of scored for an alliance at the end of the match, the points things rings are worth nothing to either alliance. But alliance goal do not have this same requirement, because of the exception:
a. Rings which are Scored on / in an Alliance Mobile Goal are worth points for that color Alliance, regardless of where the Alliance Mobile Goal ends the Match.
Thank you. Very well said
While rewatching the reveal video I noticed something:
This picture from the game reveal video shows the blue alliance winning the auton period. However, red alliance has more points from rings on alliance goals. It looks like the GDC didn’t intend on neutral goals not being worth points at the end of autonomous.
great catch, this is pretty much the only clue we have to the gdc’s intent.
I suspected this was their intent, but the rules would contradict it. All the more reason they need to clarify the auton scoring rules.
Also can we just give that pushbot some credit for somehow scoring rings onto the neutral goal?
It was the red alliance that placed the rings on the neutral goal, and the blue pushbot snagged it in the last seconds of autonomous 
but there are three rings on the neutral goal, and none of the rings from the field have been taken on that side of the field. So the clawbow would have had to have used all 3 of their preloads on that goal. which would be possible, if not for the ring that is also in the red alliance goal.
Which means the only explanation is that the blue pushbot put one of its preloads into the red alliance goal, and the red clawbot put their preloads onto the neutral goal.
But if the blue pushbot put rings on the red alliance goal, it would have crossed into the red alliance’s home zone, which should have given red the autonomous win, not blue.
I am looking at this picture again. So deconstructing step by step:
Red - has four rings on their mobile goal - 4 points.
Blue - moved three neutral goals into their home zone, so the ring scoring is as if the goals were blue. They have two in the bowl rings +2 and six on mid-level branches +18 = +20 for Blue.
Autonomous Bonus goes to Blue as they have 20 points, and Red has 4 points. Blue gets Autonomous Bonus points 20 added to their score at end match.
AWP - Red completed the autonomous task of putting rings in their mobile goal and moving the mobile goal off the AWP line. Red gets the AWP. Blue focused on getting neutral mobile goals to their side of the field and scoring rings on the neutral mobile goal. They did not put a ring in each of their alliance mobile goals but did clear the AWP Line. So not AWP for Blue.
am I reading this wrong? How does red win Automous Bonus?
So in terms of game intention - GDC probably wants teams to make the decision to either go for AWP or get benefit of Neutral Mobile Goals to gain points more quickly for Autonomous Bonus.
Hard to do with four robots on the field and requires both alliances to work well together to execute a winning plan.
well red would have 10 points I think because 3 of their 4 scored rings are on the post of the goals, not just in the cup.
it’s harder to know how many points the gdc intends to count blue as, because all we know is that they intend blue to win auton in this scenario.
If they intend rings on neutral goals to count, but neutral goals themselves not to count, blue would still win because of how many rings they have scored on the neutral goals. If they intend only goals to count but not rings (which seems unlikely to me) then blue would again still win.
So all this picture really tells us is that the GDC intended for either neutral goals in home zones, rings on neutral goals, or both to count during auton. Because of neither of them counted here, red would have won.
Good catch.
and I do not envy early events due to the ambiguities presented so far.
Agreed, I would not want to be a referee or event partner right now. Just being forced to make the decisions on what to or not to count for auton is not something events should have to decide, but unfortunately neither the manual nor the Q&A offers a clear answer.
Even without the ambiguities, this will be a very difficult game to ref.
Competitors, I know it’s not easy in the heat of the moment, but please give refs the benefit of the doubt this season.
you would likely need 4 referees for each field to keep track of every robot to the full extent. That’s something many events won’t be able to have, so yes, very difficult game to ref indeed.
Additionally, live scoring for matches this year was so complicated that it had to be split up into 3 separate roles. If the event is doing live scoring, you will likely need to have a head referee, and 3 scoring referees to catch everything and do live scoring
Looking at the picture. If your interpretation is that the goals aren’t scored at the end of autonomous, it looks like red would have 10 points to blue zero. rings on neutral goals wouldn’t count because it says “Ring on/in a Scored Mobile goal” and it wouldn’t be scored at the end of auton. Again, Red would win 10-0.
If the interpretation is that mobile goals can be scored for the sake of determining the Autonomous winner, then I see Blue winning 123 to 50. I see 5 mobile goals 7 rings on low branches and 2 in the goals for blue and 2 mobile goals and the same 10 points with rings for red.
Since they do declare blue as the auton winner, it is just another data point that seems to indicate that the GDC intends for the goals to count toward determining the winner of Autonomous.
This is the difference of interpretations - my read is neutral goals become ring scoring opportunities when the goal is in home alliance zone. Note the goal itself does not add to score, but rings do. That is a scenario consistent with Game Manual as much as any scenarios
