So are we going to talk about the new SG3 Changes to worlds? What does everyone think about it
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I feel like this should go somewhere else like the “Whats worlds like” thread
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I think you need to put in a topic that already exists.
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But isn’t this about the game manual, not the world’s experience? It was also suggested that that megathread should be common for both vrc and iq. Too much merging of topics is probably just going to increase confusion at some point
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This is not about what is worlds like. This is about the rules of the game. I think this rule change is going to help some teams, and end others.
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The following applies less to high level teams
It will make turtling difficult. Single parking (with 2 goals) + stacking two goals in 15 seconds is possible, but pretty difficult.
Meanwhile the opponents will have plenty of time to double park with 3 goals uninterrupted.
Edit: add with 3 goals clarification based on @15545G-SC’s post
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I just single park with 2 goals. That outweighs double parking. I just now saw the hidden part. Nvm.
It will make double parking much more difficult, especially during qualifications when you may or may not have a partner who can pull off the double park in a 15 second time frame compared to a 30 second one. If your partner can’t, and your opponents are both good, you’re pretty much out of luck and will lose that match. So I think it might have the consequence of amplifying the luck aspect of random qualification matches.
It also makes it a lot harder for teams who utilize the tall goal externally (as in, they score rings on it not while holding the goal), because they previously had 30 seconds of protected time that they could safely set down the goal, load up the rings, pick the goal back up, and then platform. Where now they only have 15 protected seconds to do so, which is a lot less reasonable. To the point where I’d say externally scoring tall goal mechanisms have become much less viable.
It also seems like it will just add 15 seconds to both teams just sitting around doing nothing, which high level matches already consist of. Sure, you could argue it gives the losing side more time to try and steal back the goals they need to win, but if their opponents are good the odds of getting back any goals are very slim, it’s much easier to hold on to a goal than it is to take one away.
So in general, I’m not really a fan of the change, the only benefit I could see is that it might reduce the number of sg3 violations, but it doesn’t fix the very core flaws of sg3, it just reduces the time it’s in effect, with many side consequences.
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I like the change a lot. If anyone remembers my post about disqualifying my opponents by accidentally pushing them into my platform, I’m still upset about that, they were a rookie team doing their best to overcome the goal deficit. Now at the very least if it was before 15 seconds it wouldn’t have to end that way.
Put more pressure on stacking on short time, put more pressure on teams with 4 goals. Worlds teams should be able to handle that anyway. If they can’t, they don’t deserve the crown.
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The rule update will make deffenceve bots very helpful. I think that any small and fast bots will find it hard in Worlds.
Also I know that it is off topic but if you are hoarding the bace of the tall tower in the corner but not the branch is that hoarding? You would not be blocking access to the tower just it’s bowl.
Rule is definitely gonna have a lot of interesting effects for teams at worlds
In terms of build it changes a lot. I think bots that hold 3 goals will become much more viable. Before, the ability to hold 3 was kind of just there but not really used at high level. Now dumping off one of your goals to the robot that can hold 3 and just letting them park will be very time efficient compared to double parking or lining up a stack with a robot already on the platform. It also probably spells the death for a lot of high branch scorers bc they take so much time to set up.
I feel like it will be a bigger deal for drivers though. Gonna be very clear which teams actually practiced with the new timer and which ones didn’t. Running scrims with the 15 endgame is a must for all good teams before worlds imo. Its not gonna be a done deal for the team that has 4 goals automatically. Alliances that can get quick double parks and stacking in stand to gain a lot from the change. Def adds another level of driver skill which is why im a fan of the change, but I’ve thought that long before the rules official change.
We’re really not gonna have a full picture of it until worlds actually comes around. Really excited to see what comes of it.
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From what I see, less endgame requires more driver skill (or just a better robot?)
However, I see also more defense being played in the extra 15 seconds. These extra 15 seconds can give teams more time to swing the game, and it also puts more pressure on the team with the advantage to keep that advantage. I think this addresses some of the issues brought up early this season with the game ending in auton basically.
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If you can’t steal a mogo in 1:15, I doubt that 1:30 will make a huge difference. So I’m not really seeing any benefits there.
What this will help alleviate is the “both alliances double parked with all mogos with 20 seconds left” scenario. The matches don’t end substantially before the final buzzer. It feels like they are moving 15 seconds of pointlessness from after all the points have been scored to before all the points have been scored. Which is positive.
It could help reduce the number of SG3 violations, which would be nice I guess. You don’t have a lot of motivation to hang around your opponent’s platform with 15 seconds left.
Overall, to me it feels a lot like a cheap fix, focused marginally more on making matches not end with tons of time left rather than actually fixing SG3 (is that even possible?). That being said, it looks like it could be a good enough patch to last through worlds.
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One thing that hasn’t been brought up. If your opponents are playing defense on you with 25 seconds left, they are scoring points on their platform. I think this means that both alliances will have less double parking and overall lower scores.
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Today we ran some in house scrimmage matches with the new rule, if both teams would leave each other alone it would have no effect, since both teams line up before the 15 sec mark, and park after. But we found that just playing defense right up to the 15 sec mark would not allow the other team to get lined up to park, and they would have to line up with the platform, park, and elevate the extra goals in 15 seconds, which would sometimes happen, sometimes it wouldn’t depending on the team. I think this would have been a good change, if it happened like two months ago.
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Did you guys do anything with double parking or no?
No, we didn’t even try
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If anything, this makes more double parks likely. From what I’ve seen, it is easier to double park in 15 seconds than to single park with 2 and place 2 more on. Now, if there are more 3 mogo capacity robots, placing 1 after a climb with three may be faster. But I expect to see more double parks in high-end matches.
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The problem come in qualifications, when you haven’t tried double parking with another bot, and even though in theory it should work since both teams can park individually, you never know for sure unless you have tested it.
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Yeah I agree. In theory, you could double park at the same speed or just a bit slower than a regular park. Stacking is limited by time, but double parking is pretty much entirely limited by skill and communication.