The term “being loaded” is possibly one of the most important terms after the game manual update. If the term “being loaded” means until the ball touches the floor, the strategy of entering the loading station to eliminate the randomness of the loading station. However, if the term “being loaded” means until after the loader lets go of the ball, then the strategy is legal still. Any help in finding the definition of this term (especially if asked on the official Q&A) would help. Thank you.
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So, they have officially made a ruling on this:
https://www.robotevents.com/VIQRC/2024-2025/QA/2484
And they have made clear that the ridiculous method of going over the top of the randomizer and picking up the ball before it is randomized is perfectly legal as demonstrated in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNF6m3-aY_U
What this means is that nobody will be able to be competitive unless you build a robot that can also circumvent the one part of this game that made it a game, i.e the randomness of the ball load.
This completely eliminates the need for drivers, as demonstrated in the video above where the drivers aren’t driving at all. They are standing there with one hand on the controller without any need for interaction from the driver in order for the robot to play the game by itself.
This has broken the game and I believe many teams will not be going to worlds this year even if they qualify because there will be no point in going if these types of strategies are going to be allowed as this completely ruins the game. In fact, there is no longer a game. It is just standing there watching. Worst design flaw ever for a vex game.
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Yeah, I agree. However, there is a design challenge in being able to intake balls on the ground and over the loading station. Many of the teams we see doing that (especially in China, where they know that their partner chould be able to score well) are not able to score or intake the ball when it is on the ground.
I don’t like the strategy, but the GDC has made it increedibly risky for that particular strategy. I think they are trying to invalidate that while still making it possible to influance the direction.
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Agreed 100%. This has eliminated the only part of VEX competitions that you can clearly determine is done by the student as well, driving. Now who is to say that a room full of engineers didn’t sit and build this robot and program it knowing that their student just had to press 1 button to start the robot then do nothing the rest of the time? At least if they had chosen to make a rule preventing this, there would be a required input from the children.
This game has deteriorated to the point it’s no longer a game. I won’t be surprised when a lot of great teams just stop going to worlds over it.
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I think this is the one thing overlooked, that in though they didn’t remove it, they added that warning. Which basically says if you mess up doing it, it’s trouble. But on the flip side, what ref will be able to tell if it they were touching it while being loaded because everything is going so fast. Just like rolling, it’s a grey area and most refs probably couldn’t tell, thus not really caring and letting it go. You would have to have a dedicated ref just for loading station to really enforce it.
So the advanced teams with sensors are more likely safe, it’s going to be all the new teams trying to do it without sensors that will probably get penalized the most when they mess up. And not a lot of teams in the US /Canada have started doing this, that we’ll have to wait for regional championships to start to see how the refs enforce this and see how that trickles down to other refs at regionals.
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I agree this is a fundamental problem with the game rules that needs to be addressed. When you watch the match in the link above, it’s obvious that the passing team barely uses the controller at all. In fact, the second driver NEVER TOUCHES A BUTTON OR JOYSTICK. They are handed the controller, and they hold it until the match concludes.
That can’t be the intent of the game.
While it’s a creative design, and certainly thinking outside of the (loading) box, how many elementary school kids do you know that would design a robot with the intent that they could park it in the first 10 seconds of a match, then go get an early lunch?
It certainly wouldn’t be good theater if one of those teams made the final match at Worlds.
There’s an easy fix. Just like the Pickup Zone, simply rule that you can’t pick up a ball until it’s touched the floor of the Loading Zone. Randomness and exciting gameplay would be immediately restored.
Having loaders this year has been a fantastic addition to the game, and it’s fun to have some loading creativity. We’ve seen loaders this season that put some spin on the ball, and are fairly adept at getting the ball to exit the loading station on one side or the other with some consistency. But it’s still hard, and not 100%. And both alliance partners still need to drive their robots.
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I would second (third?) the vote to define “loaded” as “ball touches the floor”. As it is now, the GDC has blessed that strategy and the race is on for everyone to add the pick-up-on-drop functionality. The Teamwork wins will then go to the teams that manage to copy that feature successfully.
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I can’t post a Q&A, but if any of you can, please feel free to use any of the info below to do so.
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Specific Game Rules cite terms that have been defined under the Game-Specific Definitions section of the manual, so that the meaning of these terms do not have to be repeatedly explained. Therefore, Game-Specific Definitions are an essential part of Specific Game Rules.
From Pg. 2 of the Manual:
Teams must adhere to these rules, and any stated intents of these rules.
From Pg. 12 of the Manual–Game Specific Definitions:
Loading Station – The gray structure, built out of VEX IQ parts, that is attached to the Field Perimeter
opposite the Goal Wall. The Loading Station is intended to receive Balls from a human Loader and
randomly send them left or right into the Load Zone.
Pg. 30 of the Manual under Specific Game Rules:
<SG4> Using the Loading Station.
Criterias a-f explain further requirements for using the loading station.
These requirements should be strictly followed by teams, as well as the intended use of the loading station as defined.
At the very least, when a robot enters the loading zone after the ball is no longer in contact with the human loader, the robot must wait until the loading station has fulfilled its intended task of randomly sending the ball left or right before the robot can proceed to pickup the ball. This robot action would satisfy all rules.
Q&A 2484–Answer by the Committee:
There is no rule prohibiting a Robot from making contact with a Ball in the Loading Station before the Ball is “randomized” by falling left or right onto the Floor.
The prohibiting factor is specified in the Definition of “loading station”, thus the robot should not make contact with the ball until the loading station has randomized it.
Would the committee consider the above explanation and update the ruling in Q&A 2484?
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I would like to fourth this. I am currently the most experienced person on my team and therefore i have seen many teams that dont even design their robot, but instead recieve direct instructions from an adult on how to build their robot. The only thing those teams had to master was driving. They didnt do so well during regional competitions because they were didnt understand their robot well and if a part broke they wouldnt know how to fix it. This loading technique makes it so much easier for these teams to win. It takes away the chance to win from the other teams that actually work hard and put in effort to design, build, and drive their robot.
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