Hi, hoping to start a new high school robotics team. I’m considering FTC and Vex, and I could use some opinions. I’m from north of Cincinnati if it helps. Just for context, my school has access to a CNC, a couple 3d printers, SolidWorks, and basic tools, but my school might not have the money to fund a whole team. Thanks for your opinions! P.S. I posted this on Reddit but I wanted to get some thoughts here.
As you are reading through the replies, keep in mind you are asking on the VEX forum and thus most responses will likely be biased towards vex.
VRC is aloooooooot bigger so if u want a larger more active community with tons of cops to go to i would say vex. if u want less restrictions on what you can and cant use on your bots do FTC. also seems like your from ohio which is a super cometitive VRC region and ur right next to kentucky which has a pretty decent of tournaments in northern kentucky
I am hoping to get some opinions biased to Vex since more of my personal knowledge is about FIRST. Granted I’m not that knowledgeable about either.
I’ll just be super critical:
VEX parts are very easy to use but as far as I know you will probably need to replace broken parts and cannot outsource alternatives due to the closed nature of the VEX walled garden. You will be buying everything from VEX and VEX only. This is both a positive, such as even playing grounds as your peers, and a negative, such as if you notice a V5 motor breaking, you can only replace it with a V5 motor and not any powerful or weaker motor that would handle shock loads better.
Also note that static is a very very annoying problem and still seems to be quite an issue in VEX and so far the only solution I am aware of is either
- anti-static spray
or
- anti-static foam tiles
Which isn’t a 100% solution that fixes the static issue that plagues a lot of white-screens (which as far as I know it is not grounds for a rematch).
However, you should expect to pay less than FTC, however it’s bot going to be substantially less. It would only be like 10-20% less than FTC but it largely depends on how you use the V5 electronics and hardware that determines how close or far the costs are from each other in savings.
I’ve competed in both FTC and V5RC, so I think I have some knowledge about both competitions (get ready for a lot of text)
As I compete in a completely different region (United Kingdom), I won’t be able to tell you much about competition logistics/availability, but I can say a couple things about the building and programming experience in both:
V5RC has a substantially more limited set of parts that you can use to build your robot - middle/high school teams are only really allowed to use official parts produced by VEX robotics (with a few exceptions), so it can feel quite limiting. This also causes VEX robots to converge towards one ‘meta’ design nearer to the middle of the season - while there is some variety between individual robots, the vast majority of teams end up creating a very similar design (last season, for example, most teams had punchers for the triballs). However, this also forces you to be a lot more creative with how you build your mechanisms - because you don’t have access to anything and everything, you’ll often end up with some pretty unique ways to use parts, outside of their normal use case. This could be a good or a bad thing. You decide.
FTC, on the other hand, is wayyy more open with what you can use to build your robot - the only real limits are the brand/types of motors and electronics you use, as well as having to use the REV Control Hub as your brain. This opens doors for super innovative and advanced designs, if you get there, but can also make it difficult for new teams to get off the ground. Even choosing a starter kit of parts can be daunting for rookies, as there are so many options on the market (REV, GoBilda, AndyMark, etc). If you’re interested in learning some more advanced CAD design and manufacturing skills, and don’t mind a steeper learning curve, then FTC might be the better choice. The range of robot designs you would see at events is also a lot wider than in VEX.
Programming wise, both competitions make it as easy or as difficult to program your robot as you like: both have a simpler, Scratch-like ‘Blocks’ variant, or you can move up to programming VEX robots in C++ using PROS and VSCode, or programming FTC robots using Java in Android Studio. Only real difference here is the heavy reliance on Tensorflow/OpenCV image recognition using cameras in FTC - this is not something that you can really do in VEX.
Fundamentally though, which program you end up choosing relies on many different factors, especially which of them is more developed in your specific region (try to look up how many events are near you to be able to gauge this).
my school has access to a CNC, a couple 3d printers, SolidWorks, and basic tools
You seem to have the basic workshop capabilities for both programs, so I wouldn’t worry about this too much.
Here are some of the differences between VRC and FTC that I have noticed
Roles of Students/Coaches/Mentors
In FTC and FRC, the adults can do the work. On most teams, the kids learn by watching the adults, like apprentices. Generally, the kids do most of the work, but the adults can design, build, and program as much as they want. Some say that the best FIRST teams have the most talented adult engineers.
VEX has a student-centered philosophy. Adults are not allowed to do the work, and the coach is expected to be more like a teacher or manager.
VEX V5 is a closed system
As already mentioned… There are exceptions for generic parts like rubber bands, zip ties, and plastic sheets, but everything else comes directly from VEX. In FTC, there are many parts suppliers (including VEX).
Machining
Vex parts have patterns of pre-drilled holes that are usually used to bolt parts together. Vex structural parts can be cut, drilled, and bent, and 1/16" plastic sheets can be CNC. However, you are not allowed to use 3D-printed parts. I am not sure about FTC, but many parts are machined in FRC.
Costs
It’s been a long time since I compared the costs of each program. But the last time I did, fielding an FTC team cost more than twice as much. That included the cost of parts needed to be competitive, team registration, and event registration costs.
Team size
The average team size in FTC is about ten students, maybe more. Some schools just have one team, while in VEX, the average team size is about four or five. A larger team helps fund a more expensive robot. With a small team, everyone gets a chance to handle the robot. However, a large team can still function even if some students are not contributing.
Age Group
In Michigan, FTC is for middle schools (and there are many FTC teams in MI). High schools are all FRC. Ohio may be different, but you should check if most FTC teams in your area are in middle or high school.
Events
This may have changed, but the event schedule for FTC used to be very structured. Teams could only attend one or two events, and their choices were limited. The VEX schedule is much more open, and you can host your own events if you want to.
I’ve got more experience in FTC so here’s the gameplay differences I’ve noticed:
-robots tend to be more complicated, and there is much more robot variety in competitions
-FTC is more robot-based compared to VRC. what I mean is that competitive teams win on having a efficient robot rather than good driving. (though I’ve still seen extremely skilled drivers in FTC!)
-auton is more important and needs vision. last year having a good auton would automatically put you above most teams
-defense isn’t a thing in FTC, so having holonomic drive is highly recommended
-you can’t multi-qualify in FTC. If you win in an event but you already qualified, the slot moves to the next team in what is essentially a giant teirlist.
All this comes at a cost, though: FTC’s learning curve is a lot steeper. Competitive teams usually have at least 10-15 people and at least 3 years of experience. Don’t expect to be good your first year.
Whats near you for competition? How many times do you want to compete. The first teams in west michigan only get to compete a few times a year. Vrc teams can go to 10 or so events without driving out of west michigan. You could compete nearly every weekend if your willing to drive farther. We like to put 3-4 people on a team. 5 is to many to keep everyone busy. Only 3 can stand field side. Vrc is cheaper and the same parts are used year after year. There is money available in michigan from the state in the form of grants. If your willing to put some effort a lot of companies are looking for local things to support especially when it comes to stem related activities.
wait you guys have that many VRC events? we only go to one per year, and it’s halfway across the state…
I guess that part must depend on your area. Where I live (Pennsylvania), FTC seems to just be more popular, which makes sense given that we’re one of the most competitive area in the world for FTC.
I will choose to play in FTC since it allows COTS with a big community and a lot of customizable things.
Vex is better and if your worried about money ever you can find sponsors were also a poor school and right now we’re looking for sponsors
also from PA, albeit almost in new jersey (you guys are central if i recall correctly), and my team does at least 5 comps a year, often 6+. PA is very good for FTC, though, and most high schools in my 30 minute radius do FTC rather than VEX.