It really clears up a lot of confusion. What does everyone else think and are there any new weird holes in the rules?
Wheres the updated manual at?
you see the changes here: Manuel update or you can find it on the vex competition page: Competition Overview - Competition - V5 - VEX Robotics
3 Likes
they need to update the referee certification accordingly.
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I think it is pretty weird how they made that rule. Because now if your platform has mogos on it, and you are protecting your platform, technically you are hoarding. Right?
2 Likes
yes, if you hook on to multiple goals than hide in the corner it is not considered hoarding, so you can make a robot that just grabs a lot of goals and has a small wallbot like part on the back to be able to legally protect goals
I somehow missed that 
I am not sure that this is a new loop hole
hoarding used to include possession, now it doesn’t, you can protect a lot of goals in the corner if you are in possession of them
5 Likes
figured it out:
drive on to the platform and BAM all the mogo are now stuck in a clamp 
or just have two “shopping cart” robots on one alliance
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Also, the goals have inconsistent orientations:
https://www.robotevents.com/VRC/2021-2022/QA/959
3 Likes
R.I.P. defense and I think that makes it harder on referees.
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You basically cannot defend goals now. lol what a joke.
3 Likes
the hoarding clarification is good. It means that robots who are actively holding multiple goals no longer need to avoid the corners, and referees have less to worry about.
Now hoarding should rarely be a fuzzy distinction, I like the changes here.
the changes to sg3 are good, but some of the examples they give seem to be in contradiction to the rule.
see point d of <\sg3>
d. Placing a Scoring Object on or under the opposing Alliance’s Platform, at any point during the Match is considered a minor violation of this rule that, at a minimum, will result in a warning.
i. If the placement is accidental, and immediately rectified (i.e. the Scoring Object is immediately removed), then this violation will be considered a warning.
ii. If the placement is intentional and / or not immediately rectified, as judged by the Head Referee, then it will be considered a violation.
By this logic, wouldn’t tipping the opponent’s platform so that their goals interfere with their ability to use the platform in the last 30 seconds be illegal? I don’t think that would be a good thing, but it certainly seems to fit with this point.
However, it’s obvious the gdc doesn’t want this to be the case because later in <sg3>, they give this example as something that isn’t a violation:
• Tipping an opponent’s Platform, which has Mobile Goals already on it, prior to the last 30 seconds.
॰ No violation/penalty, provided that no other rules are violated
So I think it’s great that platform tipping is explicitly allowed, but I think the wording of <sg3>, in particular point d, is somewhat contradictory to this example.
regardless I think it’s a good manual update, and has lessened the burdens of refs to some extent, particular in the realm of hoarding.
15 Likes
I agree that the hoarding updates remove some unneeded edge cases for possession, however, it is now quite easy to “hoard” 3 goals assuming you pick up two and block one in the corner, which is no longer a violation. I think it might make the games easier to lock down and possibly less interesting after auton.
1 Like
true, but this was essentially already happening, just with the platforms instead of the corners. The only thing the gdc could have done at this point to prevent the stagnation of goal play after auton would have been to limit goal possession to only 1 goal, and that would have completely changed the way the game is played, not a good thing to do this far into the season. Goal lockdown is inevitable, so I think making it as easy for the refs as possible in this case is preferable.
6 Likes
Depending on the competition and their understanding of the rules holding 3 goals into a corner by possessing 2 and hoarding 1 was happening. This update simply makes it far more clear and actually legal