We had a match where recently we believe that we were being pushed when trying to hang and the ref said that they can’t do anything about it because they didn’t see it and it was match affecting.
Does anyone know why vex doesn’t allow videos to be used to review decisions because there was one Livestream that the school had and was streaming and a video that we took ourselves.
It doesn’t make sense why judges can review videos for decisions like these.
This has been discussed at length in the past, here is one previous discussion that was near the top of the search results.
I’m not going to touch the question itself, but will point out that volunteers are the lifeblood which make the vents possible.
I can tell you that MORE eyeballs are better… less likely to miss things.
And that means… more volunteers are needed. The more volunteers you recruit and motivate, the less oversights happen.
Just another reminder that Judges judge notebooks and pit interviews. Referees oversee competitions and ensures players follow the rules of a game
Oh shoot, yea you’re right
TLDR of pervious threads and why I personally dont want to be allowed video review as a Head Ref
Refs have to deal with a lot, we have to watch four robots at the same time. What I encourage teams and my scorekeepers to do is to call out when something happens and usually i am already watching. If not I can shift my attention over to that robot and deal with the situation.
To spell it out for those who haven’t seen the debate before, if video were allowed to be reviewed, EVERY single match would have someone bringing something up and trying to litigate the match. No system of “well, you could have only X number of reviews in a tournament” or similar arguments are going to sway things from VRC tournaments already being long days.
In the end, it’s a competition to spur engineering learning by adding a competitive impetus behind it. In most of the world, the outcome of a single game, tournament, or season will change the course of someone’s life when it comes to getting into further education, a career, etc. (Note I said most of the world; I recognize there are a few places where this sort of thing sadly can make some impact.)
The most important thing that should come out of competition is the friends we made along the way… 
Actually, it’s the learning to fail and get right back into try to improve that is THE best outcome from this; it’s arguably the heart of engineering.
hmmm, not really when the other team was laughing at the fact that they were indeed blocking us from hanging and showing it to their friends. Kinda hurts. 
But ig you just have to suck it in.
Yeah, that’s definitely not a fun thing to encounter, and it would be great if everyone could demonstrate good sportsmanship at all points in the season, but it definitely doesn’t always happen.
At the very least, hopefully you have a good appreciation now for why the “no video review” rule exists. May your future tournaments be filled with positive experiences!
That is so true. I mean for the every vex event it is already like the whole day, are you really sure you want to spend more time in a gym with like a bunch of people.
said people who dont always know where all to apply deodorant…
I’m kind of late, but here’s a quick breakdown.
Let’s assume that an event has 80 qualification matches, and each match will take around 5 minutes for the match itself, robots getting placed on the field, scoring, etc. Realistically, at least one, if not 2, teams every match will ask for the video to be reviewed by the head ref. If we assume it takes 5 minutes for a team to pull up the live stream and find the point in the live stream where the alleged illegal play occurred, we are already at 10 minutes per match. Now, if we add in people trying to find the rule in the manual that prohibits the “illegal” play, we can safely assume that will take another 5 minutes, and the alliances arguing their points to the head ref will take yet another 5 minutes. Each match now takes about 20 minutes instead of the original 5.
Eighty matches * 5 minutes per match + a 30-minute lunch break and 16 finals matches is 8.5 hours for the entire tournament, ignoring setup and teardown.
96 matches in all (quals and finials) * 20 minutes per patch + 30-minute lunch break is 32 hours, which is 1.3 days we would have to run a tournament with no sleep.
This entire calculation is assumeing that only 1 team per match would want to review footage. If both alliances both went through this entire process per match, each match would be around 25 minutes. That puts us at 40 hours for 1 tournament, which is 1.6 days.
Hope this helps lol
Ig u guys are right, im just salty.
Its just that we had a video pulled up and offered it, he said no
And then after a while we asked him why he made that call, he switched from saying that he didnt see us being blocked to hang to he wasnt sure that it was within the time. Since the timer sound for 30 and 15 secs left in the match are the same. It just felt kinda off
Also heard another team say that they also think that the judges favors the underdogs more. Altho they were biased.
Idk, just annoying we had it all pulled up and the judge just didnt seem right. Especially his change of excuses
I would have left it at there. Casting shade at the Referees (not Judges - they look at notebooks, interview teams, and determined judged awards - not matches).
Certified Head Referees know the rules well, including the rule that explicitly prohibits video reviews. No way around it.
I would recommend being a scorer at an event - then you will get the complexity of job of the referee. It is non-stop - teams will have 6-8 matches at an event - which Head Referee is at all the matches.
What is helpful are community made tools - such as a referee training guide that Head Referees can use with their helpers as to what to look for, or my favorite this season is the Referee Anomaly Reporting tool referee.fyi - a huge help for the referee team at events. yes there are good tools VRC Hub and TM Mobile - but having note taking about matches and team during team easy is amazing.
So salty, I get that, but I would focus on next matches rather than dwelling too much on past matches, once a final decision has been made by the Head Referee in a match, that is it - it is history.
Haha. Your math is off. 4 teams x 5 videos per team (made by coaches, parents, team members, etc) = 20 videos per match.
QED
Everyone who’s ever participated in a match has at some point wished that footage could be reviewed, I feel you. I also understand your frustration with the refs, but you gotta remember that they are volunteers, and humans. Don’t cast shade on them for doing their jobs. 
No offense, but it’s bad sportsmanship to keep talking about this. I would drop it if I were you
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