2021 - 2022 VEX Robotics Competition - Tipping Point

If you did it before the endgame, and it’s still sitting there. You will be dq’ed if it’s match affecting. This goes with rule G3. Apply common sense.
Example: If your bot was there when there were 31 seconds left, and then the clock hit 30. You’re still touching it.

Yeah, I knew that when writing my post. I was referring to doing it AND removing it before the endgame period, which might be advantageous if your opponent plans on balancing the bridge early with a mogo (like what was showcased in the 1st NZ Scrimmage).

If you were to load up an alliance mogo such that tilting the tree caused a donut to fall off, would placing this mogo on the opponent’s balanced platform before the last 30 seconds violate SG3?

Since SG6 states that these donuts are safe, if the opponent were to tilt the platform to park, donuts would fall off and could potentially be match affecting if the score was very close.

You don’t need to wait for the game manual update to get an answer on this, as the question is simply an RTM question. Unless, you can cite a rule that prohibits this action, then it is legal.

Applying common sense says that the referees are not going to be responsible to keep track of how a game object happened to get under a platform sometime in the game. You could accidentally knock a game object under your own platform yourself. According to the rule, just don’t do it in the last 30 seconds. That is the only thing a referee could be expected to look out for.

I just realized how harshly that came off (my bad). What I mean is, if you’re intentionally dumbing rings or mogos onto the platform so as to block them. They’ll notice(that’s how I interpret it).

Well, that actually would be a perfectly legal, but a little bit strange, game strategy up until the last 30 seconds. But I think there’s probably better use of your time then dumping field elements into your opponents area.

Additionally, since game elements getting in the way under the platform, regardless of how they get there, is part of the game, most competitive teams would have some way to easily remove random objects so they can do what they need to do. If game objects were not supposed to accidentally get in the way, then there would have been field elements designed with guarding to prevent it, for example the center platform of NBN had guards to prevent balls from going under the platform, and the IQ game with a tilting platform also had a guard to keep game elements out from under the platform. The current game has no guards therefore random elements in the way becomes part of the game.

NBN had no center platform - you mean Turning Point?

Right! After a dozen years, it starts getting harder to remember all the games!

In many ways NBN is the one worthy of forgetting :slight_smile:

o lol i didnt see the plastic on the edge of the platform

I think you are incorrect here - as depositing a mobile goal under the platform in order to accomplish the task of circumventing <SG3> is expressly mentioned in section c as a violation of <SG10>

c. Per <SG10>, using a Scoring Object to cause interference with the opposing Alliance’s Platform during the last thirty (30) seconds would be considered a violation of this rule.

So if at start of driver control I go deposit a mobile goal under the platform and it is still there during the last 30 seconds preventing the platform from becoming balanced, it is an automatic DQ.

and I also disagree with the statement:

Applying common sense says that the referees are not going to be responsible to keep track of how a game object happened to get under a platform sometime in the game.

We have certified referees to officiate tournaments to assure rules are followed.

Given there seems to be a disagreement as to whether a mobile goal placed under the platform before the 30 second period, I think this would be worthy of a Q&A to see if this in an infraction or not in light of <SG10>.

I would agree that a Q&A would be warranted, since there appears to be significant disagreement on the interpretation of the rule, even among those who have been certified referees each year.

done :slight_smile:
https://www.robotevents.com/VRC/2021-2022/QA/813

I hope to get clarity…

this rule isn’t that hard to interpret, if the object is still present in the last 30 seconds of the match and its match affecting, its a dq.

please stop trying loophole rules with intent to sabotage the ability of other teams and just get better :pray:

I think it would be useful to site SG3 + SG10, as together they indicate illegality of early placement of a goal under an opponent platform. The clarification I think this thread is looking for is what expectation we have for referees to track early game actions forward to the protected 30 second time period. I feel we can expect head refs to keep these actions straight, but it is a very active game and mistakes will be made (and drama will follow.)

Referees are expected to know critical elements of the game - SG3 will be one. I expect keeping track of a bot running to drop off a mobile goal under opposing platform is a no-brainer at any time of the game, as it might be an automatic DQ if present last 30 second of game. An early match warning is all that is warranted - if team chooses to leave mobile goal or a zillion rings under platform, then it is on them. Those referee advisories will be in referee training videos.

I think you are misinterpreting the power of SG-10. SG-10 applies while a robot is actively controlling a game object. For example, you can’t use a mobile goal like a lance to deliberately tip over an opponent and claim your robot didn’t do it. Once a robot releases a game object, then SG-10 no longer applies.

So, don’t try and mess with your opponent’s platform in the last 30 seconds, either with your bot or with game objects. Game objects that are in the way under your platforms are just something you’ll need to deal with as part of the game, regardless of how they got there. I don’t see this as a particularly useful strategy, nor as a so-called loophole, there just needs to be clarification.

Common sense rule(sg1???). We can infer that the intent of this rule is to stop people from gunking up the opponents platform. Therefore, if you push a goal under there, you’ll probably be in violation.

That being said, what would the ruling be if a tipped goal rolled under?

You cause the action, you suffer the consequence. will see what Q&A determines.