How Important are Rings?

While in first the extra weight might be an issue, it is less of an issue in VRC. FRC has a weight limit, and VRC does not.

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While 10+ years ago, most top-tier FRC teams were pushing the weight and size limits, that’s completely reversed itself.

Now, the major design trend among the top performing teams in FRC for the past several years has been to aim to be as far below the weight and size limits as possible, to increase their acceleration times and overall mobility.

The only major hit on weight and complexity that FRC teams are taking now is implementing full swerve drives.

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This is true but frc has unlimited motors. So the more consistent power of motors for everything is used but in vrc the limit of 8 motors leaves teams restricted in how much power they have so pneumatics will be found on almost every high level robot for mogo lifts, claws, 2 speed transmissions.

Instead of releasing the max psi you can every time you instead use a pressure regulator and only do 50 psi so actuations are consistent.

But vex already required good funding to be the best of the best anyways so the pneumatics aren’t really a pay wall. All it adds is an extra layer of complexity which should make more interesting mechanisms.

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FRC has a 16 motor limit because of the pdp

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Oh, interesting. Maybe vrc could end up like frc in not using pneumatics but we will see at the end of the season.

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They don’t have unlimited motors. And in FRC not every motor is equal (even if they physically are). There are several factors:

  • The number of slots on the Power Distribution Panel (16x, if you’re running nothing else through the PDP)
  • The size of the circuit breaker behind the motor (the PDP only has 8x 40A slots and the rest can be as high as 30A). This means that if you used all the same motor, a motor on a 30A breaker has a lower ceiling than a motor on a 40A breaker.
  • The amount of power the battery can output. Motors in FRC have gotten more and more power hungry, while the battery has effectively been the same for nearly 30 years. If you ran 16x motors on an FRC robot at the same time, you will start to hit the limits of what the battery is capable of producing. Also keep in mind that the FRC control system will brownout once Vbat dips under 6VDC.

There’s a lot of technical reasons why teams would want to run pneumatics, but they’re still trending away from it.

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This is one of the most silly things I’ve read since vexlover72 was on the forum (may he Rest In Peace)

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image

X drive problems with traction wheel - #6 by 2775Josh
https://www.vexforum.com/t/x-drive-problems-with-traction-wheel-2/alt/85098/201

In our teams opinion, we believe as long as you have a dominant MOGO robot, you should be in the clear.
What we have is a wheel base that connects to a passive intake which sucks the rings into a sort of bin. As long as you get the robot on the platform at the end with 3 mobile goals, it would be competitive in a match. Take it with a grain of salt, but we think it will be a very good combo.
These are the current schematics:
6m Drive
pneumatic lift
1 motor conveyor
1 motor tipper.
If anyone has any input I’d love to hear it, especially on our idea of hoarding ring.

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I don’t think hoarding rings will be competitive, for a few reasons.

  1. Good luck making it effective. There are 72 rings
  2. RIngs can take up more space than you’d think, making it hard to hold enough to be effective
  3. You’re better off scoring them.
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That makes sense, I think I agree with your sentiment.

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I would agree that ring hoarding doesn’t seem very viable at the moment.

72 rings is a lot and in the time it’d take you to collect all the rings on the field your opponent is likely to have grabbed all that they need. Not to mention that they have a good number of match loads that are safe from your hoarding.

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1 item that I feel nobody has mentioned concerning rings is skills. @Ben had already maxed no ring skills: Vex tipping point 283 pt. driver skills -38141B - YouTube

In order to be competitive in skills, i feel teams will have to be able to play rings.

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Yeah I was thinking about the next step and I think 289 would be easy to add on. (Get all 3 preloads on the post for 9 points instead of just in the base) Or would parking be the next step? My best run so far had 6 second atop time so rings are definitely going to be relevant in skills but I guess only time will tell how much.

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I agree. However, you can see that it took him the entire minute to get the goals onto the robot. Granted, this is not the best robot, so maybe you can cut that down to 45 seconds with a better robot, but then you would still have to park your robot(5 seconds). This gives you around 10 seconds left, and that is not a lot of time to spend scoring rings. Something like a plunger probably would not be fast enough

Yeah rings are needed next. I had 2 second stop here with a rather janky run. When this is perfected and there’s 10 seconds left rings will add on to help out.

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I wonder if the tall goal will play a large part in skills. Skills is all about getting the most points for the quickest actions, and theoretically scoring rings on the tall goal should yield the highest points/second ratio for any ring based action.

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maybe… I mean it does yield high points but I don’t know if a mogo claw and dr4b can all be fit into one robot just to score a few more points.

Honestly I think after a certain point (310) programming is really all that matters.

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Maybe but I mean scoring on the tall goal also adds a lot of complexity to a robot. I think we’ll see alliance goals get filled up with rings before we see scoring on the tall goal

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I agree the alliance goals should probably be filled up first