Injustice in the RECF (448X)

Hello all,

Some of you may be aware that our team, team 448X, has been removed from the team list for the 2019 HS World Championships. This is a result of the RECF disqualifying our team from competing at any future competitions this season, including Worlds. The RECF claims that we egregiously violated rule and the Code of Conduct, and have denied our multiple appeals to their ban despite the large amount of evidence we have gathered from over a dozen separate witnesses proving this claim false. Throughout these past couple of weeks, our interactions with the RECF reveal the injustice within the organization itself, and we are concerned with the way teams like us may be treated in the future.

The injustices that we have faced has come to light in many incidents including:

-The constant changing of allegations against us
-The RECF’s insistence to involve our school with the hopes to punish us academically
-The lack of involvement of our team in the investigation process

These are just a fraction of the issues we have had with the RECF in this appeal process.

We would like to see a change in the RECF’s protocol, specifically in the California region. The RECF abuses its quite nearly unlimited power as the judge, jury, and executioner. It’s treatment of those who question authority harms teams who push boundaries and favors those who simply comply. How can the RECF claim to benefit the general welfare of the students when it actively seeks to punish those who love and are passionate about the competition? How can they ban members of their own community without due process?

It is with your help and support that we can create a change for the benefit of all teams.

If you believe that there needs to be a change in the RECF, please sign this petition:

Thank you.

-Team 448X

*DISCLAIMER: Please keep this conversation civil. We are not trying to incite any violence or hatred towards any parties. This is a call for change, not hate.


Need a little more details than what you have presented. I’ve worked with RECF for years (over a decade) I’ve had breakfast with Dan. The have treated me fairly across the years, even though I can trace rules to things that I may have done in prior years.

So there is more to the story…

Code of conduct in case you haven’t read it.

And this has been changed from corruption in RECF to injustice.

I suggest you do this. You take your post down. Walk around for an hour. Then write up what happened and why you got bounced.

Facts speak louder than passion. We are engineers, facts and data are our foundation. Build a foundation first and go from there.


I think calling this “corruption” may be a bit inflammatory and extreme.
more information would be nice, such as what rules they claim you have broken, and details on what exactly you are being banned for. I’ve played against you before, multiple times, and I haven’t seen anything I would call you out on. Although I do recall you were DQ’d in LA California state finals. perhaps they thought you presented repeating cases of egregious strategies, such as the pinning/trapping you were called out on? Like @Foster said there is most likely more to the story.I’d also like to add that they most likely are not out to get the teams that push the limits, but if you end up repeatedly breaking those limits, even if not by a lot, they would want to ban you, just so no headaches are caused by over aggressive playing at worlds.


@DanMantz tagging you

You said that the RECF said that your team egregiously broke the code of conduct. Before we continue, if anyone has competed with 448X and saw what happened (witnesses), could you provide information confirming their attitude, reputation, etc in general as well as before the season disqualification?


I may be ignorant on the situation. All I know is the pinning call on pushing, and the least match affecting DQ I’ve seen since 1008M back in July. This reminds me a lot of the 62 situation, and wouldn’t you know, it’s the same region. Does this kind of bias against your organization go deeper than just the finals of this state competition?
Also, if you are allowed, maybe some of your emails or conversations with recf people could give more detail and evidence to your claims?
I’m terribly sorry to hear you are treated like this. Even what we know to be true is ridiculous. Shame on them

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well I’m willing to bet this is caused at least partly by their disqualification from CA LA states finals (for pinning/trapping I think?), but I have gone to multiple events with this team and I don’t recall anyone seeing anything egregious going on. but then again, I wasn’t paying much attention, so I’m probably not in a place to testify to their behavior.

What happened here. I’m a little out of the loop. I’d edge towards siding with the RECF unless I can know what happenned.

really? pushing? odd. I watched that match and I recall seeing quite aggressive defense being played, with a lot of pushing into corners and such.

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As far as I was aware, the refs called a DQ in the finals due to it being the fifth offense of 448X pinning that day, and the DQ was made due to multiple offenses throughout the day. I don’t see how that yanked them from getting from the Worlds competition, however.


@danny_bedro Did you perhaps argue over that DQ a bit too much, after it was already decided? regardless of whether it was justified or not.


In the past month, I have learned a lot through the interaction with the RECF. Specifically, I reviewed all the vocabs learned in AP Government and Politics class.

  1. Due Process: our team was banned from the world competition in less than one business day. Before the ban was announced, our team, the most important party in this decision, the defendant in this case, was not contacted or consulted once for what happened or the ongoing “investigation”. For anyone with any common knowledge, how can this be considered a fair trial or investigation?
  2. Right to a fair trial: in my understanding, isn’t it the conventional practice to give the defendant the chance to at least appear in court and defend for themselves? When we were not even given the chance to collect evidence to defend ourselves, how can the judge (RECF) sentence us with capital punishment in the VEX community (banned from WORLD) with opinion and evidence from one side?
  3. Double jeopardy: later on, each time when we tried to defend ourselves through sending evidence and testimonies from other witnesses through email to Dan, the accusation against us would change and force us to collect new evidence to defend ourselves again. This has been extremely frustrating and exhausting especially when RECF gave out accusations without presenting us the evidence they held that led to the accusation. It is exactly like fighting with air.
  4. Writ of Habeas Corpus: As mentioned above, there were no presentations of evidence by RECF when they brought up accusations. Dan eventually agreed to “share” the evidence with us but only if our school principal is involved. How can we be accused and punished without even seeing and knowing the evidence against us?

It is so shocking to us that every right that every citizens deserves in a civil society was ignored and disrespected by the RECF


@DRow might want to keep an eye on this

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I would agree with you BUT: VEX is a company, not a country


I do understand that, but it is does not justify anything that they have done to us. My comments are just a review for the AP class vocabs.

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The video was taken down

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nvm, you just need to open it in youtube

It’s not taken down; you just have to watch it on YouTube.

Regardless, both Finalists and Champions made it to Worlds in every California States, so I echo what @Xenon27 asked, and want to know how 448X handled the disqualification.

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I’d like to hear the refc’s side of the story before coming to any conclusions.

just on a side note, why argue a dq if you’d already qualled to worlds? feels like when my captain argues the score even though we’d still have won the match.


If I was about to win my state’s final and got dq’d for what I thought was a wrong reason I would argue, would you not? There’s something called pride.

they probably didn’t have the thought of worlds being ripped away from them