Have you thought about what that creates for the kids? By that logic playing basketball only teaches you to put a ball in a net and work together, but itās more especially here where the community is helpful and is willing to rally behind something they disagree with.
This issue with this is that there is truely no factual evidence, just people claiming what happened
Yes, I did, and a lot.
Weāre all in agreement, this is why we are calling on RECF to provide evidence
What stands out to me is having your kid participate in robotics for many years - seemingly with no problems about corporate structure or cost. Then when things go bad, there is a litany of bad stuff about VEX, IFI, and RECF. Where was all this outrage when a significant investment was made to start up a new team. All these complaints come out now. Seems a little disingenuous.
We are an independent team entirely supported by our parents. The cost to start this season and compete all the way through is tremendous. Spending more money on thing we feel highly passionate about does not indicate that we can just blindly waste money. Our parents have earned their money through hard work like anyone else does. One dollar for you means the same for us. I donāt understand what is fishy about the statement Robomom3 has made.
Addition: we do not have money to āblowā and I donāt think anyone is willing to āblowā the money blindly even if they are that wealthy.
I agree with this as i am also an independent team, also props to all of 448x and such for keeping this civil. If I was them I would be throwing hands at my wall.
I find it disheartening that a team can go to worlds after not going to a single competition this season, be it from V5 problems or what, but one of the hardest working, best teams arenāt allowed to go, after qualifying.
I, personally, believe neither side is in the right. Both sides could have handled the situation better. Both sides arenāt providing all the evidence available, which they arenāt obligated to.
Releasing the statements saying how 448X was disrespectful can be beneficial to us all. I donāt want to go to competitions and be in fear of a season dq if I respectfully (in my view) argue a call I think was wrong.
RECF is their own company and they can ultimately do whatever they feel is best, which is kind of a bummer. I donāt particularly like unchecked power but thereās nothing we can do about but move past it and hope itās not us next. Good luck to you guys 448X and good luck to the rest of the teams to not be the next season dq.
Does anybody else think it weird that a member of a team that āwasnāt disrespectfulā would make a public, unfounded allegation of corruption the title of their argument?
Itās only evidence of a one-time poor choice of wordsā¦ but I notice there has been no apology for it.
It kind of makes me wonder how many other one-time poor word choices have been madeā¦ perhaps by more than one party in this discussion?
Maybe Iām just out of touch and there is a way to respectfully accuse people of being corrupt?
Jason
Considering the stories shared here within the past 24 hours, calling the allegation unfounded is just plain wrong.
I acknowledge and understand that you are trying to bring light to all parts of the story, however, and I understand that this is human nature, your response mixes in a lot of personal. I understand that you may not be as fluent or versed in language as Dan Mantz may be (indeed, he is the CEO of a large company), however your language does fall short, and thatās often where it feels more like a personal attack instead of cold hard facts. Sentences beginning with āSoā evoque a sense of rushing, and turmoil, even if perhaps that was not the case. The lack of formatting suggests that the response was written hastily, and as we all are aware, emotions boil the hardest right in the moment.
In general, this post sounds more like an angry rant-type, than a ālet me present the argumentsā post. This might be my opinion, but if you are looking to convince and gain supporters, this post is likely doing the opposite. In my mind, this post did not help make 448Xās side of the argument any more credible, even if it does contain the truth. I want to believe the facts that have been pointed out by the team, however, there seems to be a lack of communication somewhere, as there are multiple sides of the argument being presented. I understand that this post had good intentions, but when you put in your intentions and hopes at the end of an otherwise factual post, it makes me wonder: how much of that opinion ended up in the post?
It is indeed up to you what you want to do with the money that you give to RECF, but I think that blatantly suggesting that all of RECF across the entire globe is corrupt puts you in a compromising position, where I think itāll be difficult for you to find support. I know that one or two regions may have worse experiences than others, and I donāt support this kind of attack towards the RECF - not to mention that it ruins and spoils the overall tone of your message.
I know that hired referees sounds like a good idea, yet you bring up an invalid example. Peeway baseball kids do not have a competition across the globe, and do not have hundreds of thousands of competitions to run each season. If they needed paid refs, then it becomes more and more difficult for EPs and RECF to create this environment for competitive and educational robotics. I know for fact that in Ontario, EPs, Judges, and Refs must all complete and pass a quiz and test about all aspects of the game and the general code of conduct before they are allowed to host an event. I suggest you consider alternatives such as these before jumping to a conclusion that you should stop supporting vex. Iām not sure whether or not some people may have prejudice, but if it does happen, you need to consider why they might have this prejudice, instead of screaming that they do. I understand that you are all looking for support within the community, but we as supporters still donāt understand what exactly weāre supporting. Are we supporting sending 448x to worlds? Or having RECF make changes? If so, what changes? You describe an issue, without proposing much of a solution that can benefit others. This in my mind shows incredible negligence from the organizations mentors and parents, and some of this does trickle down into the way I have heard and seen these students interact.
I know that people can change, but just because youāre tired and cranky and upset doesnāt give you the right to mistreat your child. In the same regards, Iāve seen otherwise positive teams get āin-the-momentā and say a few offhand things. Just because it was only once or twice doesnāt mean that it didnāt happen, and just because it happened once in a bad moment doesnāt mean that itās ok.
I was supporting 448x until this moment, when this post came out. I hope you take the time to revise and clarify it (being the post), before continuing to ask for support. And, if Iām honest, 448x in this moment seems to be grasping at something that isnāt there. Maybe there is, but to me it seems like they just want this attention to affect a change that they want, not actually to help other teams (as demonstrated above).
Iāve seen it multiple times.
Itās not a mistake or a one time occurrence.
There are members of the California RECF that are consistently dishonest and fraudulent.
Corruption is not a pretty word, but thatās what it is.
Sadly, the only evidence of this are a couple testimonies. As time goes on, the truth will come out. Maybe someone will record in entirety like I should have. Time will uncover the truth.
I will not opine on 448ās position - it is over with and wont effect you. We should all be talking about the bigger problem here that has a real impact on the culture of VEX.
Just because California RECF is corrupt, does not mean that RECF else where is - right?
There is a significant difference between āwe believe we were subject to an injust processā and āRECF is corruptā.
Againā¦ perhaps just a poor word choice, but I have seen no evidence to suggest that anyone in the RECF organization is acting for personal gain, and I have seen no post apologizing for the use of the term ācorruptionāā¦ if it was the wrong word choice, then a retraction and apology is in order. Indeed, Foster hinted at it early in this thread, and Dan specifically requested it in his post.
Jason
And just a reminder to folks chosing to use terms like ācorruptā and āfraudulentā that this is a public form, and there are laws around libel. Youāre perfectly safe to argue that you have been ādisappointed with the decisions and processesā of various officials, but when you accuse them, or their organization of criminal acts then it is wise to be aware than they are within their rights to seek legal remedy and compensation. Not saying that is likely to happenā¦ but discretion is the better part of valour.
Itās still a problem that should be solved, world skills not happening is an example of this.
I think itās just a poor word choice
It is neither poor word choice nor deserving of an apology. The actions described by multiple witnesses within this thread clearly show behavior that fits within the definition of corruption. Plain and simple.
Iāve been following this thread and I have a question: have Worlds/season DQs happened in other regions before? Iām not trying to insinuate anything here, maybe SoCal is just more competitive. Itās just that Iāve never heard of this kind of thing happening before - maybe people get ejected out of a tournament or DQd from awards, but has this kind of DQ ever actually happened anywhere else?
Edit: Had NorCal, meant SoCal
As far as Iām aware it has only happened in so cal