Right now, the alliance choosing process favors the #1 and two teams, meaning 1 picks 2 and they win, is there any way ro dissuade this, to guve a fairer chance to the lower seeded teams?
I believe this is intentional. What’s the point of playing so hard to get #1 seed if you don’t get a benefit?
Convince the #1 seed that your robot is better than the #2 seed.
This game leaves extremely viable options for a low seeded alliance to overtake a high seed alliance. This makes the importance of being on a high-seed alliance versus a low-seed alliance slightly less significant.
Regarding the process itself, I think it’s completely fair - if you’re a top seed there should benefits, and those who failed to rank as high should have to work harder to beat those who earned benefits.
If you’re gonna be a lower seed and you can’t do what @puzzler7 said, you should try and arrange it so you are on the #2, #3, #6 or #7 alliance because then you won’t have to face the #1 alliance until finals. If you would lose to them in semifinals you would still lose to them in finals, but hey, you stand a better chance of getting that “tournament finalist” award they give out at bigger tournaments.
At state (at least in Arizona), tournament finalists also qualify for worlds.
Actually this was not the case at my last competition. 1 picked 2 but the 5th place alliance(Mine) defeated them and went to the finals against the 3rd place.
it isnt always the case that 1st and 2nd seed are better. crappy alliances throughout the day bring rankings down.
1 and 2 may also not work well together. The two designs may conflict
1-2 combo doesn’t necessarily produce an unbeatable No.1 alliance. There is always the great chance that the No. 2 or 3 seed alliance upsets the 1 seed in the finals. In my division at Worlds, the 3 & 4 seeds took out the 1 & 2 seeds in semifinals. A similar thing happened at my last tournament, where the 3 seed took out the 2 seed in the semifinals, to face us off in the finals, where we still won. I think teams are better off looking for a ride with those top seeds. The rotation method ensures that there is a fairer distribution of strength among alliances. Besides, if you’re in a big state like California or Texas, where they give qualifications to finalists (and semi-finalists, if big enough), more teams can qualify.
In my experience, the 1 and 2 seeds may be the best individual robots but they make not work the best together. As the 1 seed in a southern New England qualifier we chose the 25 seed as our first pick and won with ease. At another qualifier we were the 8th picking seed, choose the 19th seeds and upset the 1st seed with ease. So we put a lot of emphasis on scouting
Absolutely. Since some very good teams might find themselves seeded out of the top 8, part of the responsibility of being an alliance captain is knowing which teams are good. Same goes for if you’re below the top 8; you need to market yourself as the best possible option for the higher seeded teams.
I think people on the forum try to revamp the alliance selection process every 6 months or so, but even if it’s not perfect, most modifications to the system would make it worse than it is already. So I think the best course for any team is to get a solid understanding of alliance selection strategy and use it to your advantage.
Sadly, California no longer seems to do that 
CA has basically been split into three separate States tournaments, and only Tournament Champions (along with the other awards) qualify for Worlds.
Sadly, California no longer seems to do that CA has basically been split into three separate States tournaments, and only Tournament Champions (along with the other awards) qualify for Worlds.
Umm, they had finalist qualify last year in California and since I think there are more teams then last year I don’t see why they would change it.
Scouting, scouting, scouting.
Many of our events have had the same 1-2 alliance pairings, only to have a 5th or 6th seed go on to win. Why? Because if 2nd captain got there on pure luck (strong qualifying partners) and nobody noticed, they get picked fast. This goes for any higher-ranked robot that had lucky pairings. So who picks them? Teams that had no effective scouting and chose based on ranking only.
And don’t choose alliance partners that just score high - if they score the same way yours does, you might be picking a partner who is competing with you for the same points on the floor.
Instead - choose a partner who helps fill in gaps in your ability. Match them to your strengths and weaknesses.
With this year’s game design, good scouting could determine the final outcome.
I don’t think the 1or 2 seed alliance wins all the time but they do Win the majority of the time and that’s the point of working hard and winning however 2 might not be the best fit for the 1 seed alliance and the beauty of being a low seed is you can pick who you want I qualified for worlds twice as the 7th seeded alliance and once as the 1 seed and picked the 5 seed. While picking an alliance It’s never all about wins and losses it’s primarily about picking the best robot for you. Which means you have to have someone on your team to sit and watch every match and take notes. It’s not fun but the best teams alway have someone to do it and it makes the difference when the playoffs start.
At the SC NbN State Championship, the #1 Alliance got taken down my the #8th which made it all the way to the finals, but lacked a good preload shooter. But I think this proves its fair, just the higher seeds have a higher chance of winning because there is a reason they are a higher seed.
I think an overhaul of the seeding system is illogical especially with the 1 picking up 2 statement. In Georgia we haven’t had a 1 pick up a number 2 and win the tournament even after 8 tournaments.
At my most recent competition I was the 1st seed and picked the 10th seed team and we won against the 2nd seed in the finals.
I have seen some tournaments where teams do get together as #1 and #2 but it doesnt mean they will always win, especially as the season progresses and a lot of teams start to even out with the powerhouse teams in each region.
This is not always true. Some times the higher seeds got there because they were matched up with the more efficient robots. Our team at Nationals last year was ranked 66th after the qualifiers due to bad alliances/miscues (forgetting to plug in second battery. LOL). We were selected by the 4th place team in the 3rd round due to we were still ranked as a top 25 robot scoring. Our alliance won the whole tournament and our team did not lose a game. 4-0. I know for a fact that the #1 seed in the H.S. division was not the best robot and thus all top 15 other teams declined alliance invites. So it is not always #1 and #2 are the best. This is why scouting by your team is important.
I’ll chime in with the in theory obvious choice is for 1 to pick 2, but in practice that does not work out.
One of the cool thing about VEX is the lack of rules. While the current rules document seems daunting, you should look at other robot rules and you would be amazed.
On 1 picking 2, good for them. On the lack of a serpent pic (1-8 8-1), good for the qualification winners.
But elimination bouts never go as planned.
And for CA, you guys should revel in the chances that you have to go to Worlds.