But this isn’t an end-all solution. At in-person tournaments there will probably be a lot of teams that don’t have this design, or even just one. That will make every team that does have this design completely out of the running for the max score when paired with that team. (Unless they can max their half in a different way). In my opinion, the game will have been “solved” when a team can max out skills. And personally, I think it’d be pretty simple to change this design a little bit so it can do that.
And, It’s still early season, we dont know about all the other teams that are still building and refining.
A 2-motor pushbot could just push the balls to the side with the dumper… See if it can hold all 22! Driver skills would be the main issue, as we have already seen bots get more that this bot could get.
I also don’t think this is inherently bad. I think there were always teams with access to these types of designs early in the season and at the very least I’m glad that the playing field is getting leveled over time.
This was the main reason for my OP. If two teams have this bot, they can quickly max the game and then come down to stoppage time.
HOWEVER, in order to get a good partner in the final, you have to have a high average throughout qualifying. This robot paired with a herobot will not score as well as a double catapult that can pass under the bar. Therein lies the risk/reward balance in bringing this to a competition.
With skills, you get to reset on the other side of the bar, so if they can move a little faster, then they may be able to max skills with this bot.
They can strategically reset for programming, not driving. They will have half the field for driving if they can’t go under (or over) the bar.
On a side note, all teams that can’t go under the bar will have issues with LRT as well. If both bots can’t go under the bar in LRT then one corral is sacrificed. In LRT, any bot that can’t go under the bar will always sacrifice half their balls as well.
Although I agree that fully maxing out skills is very difficult, I wouldn’t be too sure that “maxing out” skills won’t happen soon (or that it has already happened…). Also, if a team can “max out” skills, then they are also scary good in teamwork because the two setups are the same.
If teams can do this just a little faster, they will have time to low climb, virtually maxing out the field. This also means they will beat all the teams that don’t low climb. A high climb will beat a low climb though. But a high climb that is worth just 4 extra points (less than one missed ball) so it just doesn’t seem worth it at that point.
True, but one thing to keep in mind is the VEX doesn’t like to change the game in a way that will make teams’ robots incompatible with the new setup(s). I think that they might have to do this though, as I can’t think of anything that would make the game much harder that wouldn’t do that.
Adding more balls would make 22 ball-carrying robots obsolete, as chances are that they don’t have spare room for more balls.
Adding a third section in the field could also have a detrimental effect on the 22 ball robots as well as half field robots, because if two of them are in a match, they are now missing out on some of the balls. As for the 22 ball robots, many of them (I would guess) would pick up 11 balls, go under the bar, expand to 19" so they have room for the rest of the balls, and then high hang and dump. Another bar would make this whole design potentially not work and be a cause for a robot rebuild.
These are just two ways though, and I’d like to hear what you all think about ways they could change the game, and how that would affect various teams’ and their robots.
They could simply require that the teams pass under the bar at some point in the match.
Which would be disastrous to all of the teams competing with unmodified claw bots and hero bots
Maybe they could give some points to robots that pass under the bar during the match?
make the temwork field have 4 sections and keep the skills field as it is right now
I wouldn’t think they will add additional parts (like more pipes) to the playing kit unless they plan on shipping those additional parts free of charge to everyone who has already purchased a kit.
A common occurrence I’ve seen in just about every vex game has been the fact that all points scored in the match are visible at the end of the match. This is very helpful to anyone who wants to see how exciting a match may be but can only see the last couple seconds of it. It’s also very important for several other reasons. If a team went other the bar during the match, scoring the points, and then went back the other way to stay on that side for the rest of the match, it would not be easy to tell how many points should be scored at the end of the match.
(Please let me know of any vex games that do not follow this theme, because I can’t think of any. )
A FRC game had this as a scoring method and even then it took a multitude of sensors on the field to keep track of it.
I highly doubt VEX would make this an option
I have only ever seen this in FTC (Velocity Vortex & Ultimate Goal) and FRC (Power Up, Rebound Rumble, Aerial Ascent, etc.),but never for VRC.
I also tested this scheme myself and accommodated 21 balls (I was going to test 22 balls, but one ball disappeared)。
https://youtu.be/NG07MRcVfys
Any updates would have to be rule changes, not changes to the field. I think a 6 ball possession limit would make it harder, not influence beginner teams, and this design would still work and would just need to run more efficiently. This bot could still do it’s thing, as it could easily to two runs in the minute with another similar bot. They could also just make the 19" limit a hard limit, saying that no bots could go beyond the T at all.
Another video has been posted. This robot can go under the low bar and then expand to score balls. I would not be surprised if this becomes the dominant design this season.
Sadly I think it will, just now it’s a matter of time until it becomes the only design used by the high scoring teams
Yeah…it can’t miss balls like cannons or flywheels, it’s fast, and it can high hang. There are no other designs that come close to this yet, and most teams won’t experiment with other designs because this one can already solo max out the field.
Although it did miss one, pushed back under the bar and it appears the driver walked round the field with the robot to get a better view of all balls.
Not saying that with a bit of practice this robot and driver won’t max legally, but it isn’t infallible and there may be a faster design. But the concept looks very sound.