Ball lockout - critical flaw in game design?

VEX V5 Robotics Competition
83

This is against the rules. The ball must on the field of the goal. And follow this:

h
h925×1226 254 KB

84

What do you mean against the rules? That just whether or not the bottom ball is considered scored.

85

First of all, this page of the manual that you posted says nothing about balls being scored in goals, and second, this is currently legal, and the balls that are in this position are considered scored.

image
image750×230 107 KB

86

Please pay close attention to the three pictures, especially the position of the ball at the bottom

87

That bottom ball layout causes the top ball to not position properly. What is being talked about is how this actually makes the top ball be positioned properly.

88

You are talking about how goals are owned, not scored; two completely different definitions.

89

I mean, that cant be scored.
There are a lot of ways to put the ball like this, you just need a Channel to hit the ball in

90

@13536G Thats has nothing to do with the bottom ball being scored

91

Yes, but you put the ball just like the third picture, you can be scored.

h
h925×1226 254 KB

92

I think you can report this to the VRC organizing committee

93

I’m confused on what you’re saying; a ball in this position is considered scored. And it even can be considered owned in a goal if there are no balls above it.

94

Nah, you definitely don’t need to sacrifice anything (apart from manouvorability) to descore them, as long as you have a 4m drive you should be fine

95

I would disagree, the way the balls get wedged it is very difficult to remove them. you can’t get a good angle or grip on them, and they’re wedged with a lot of force, so you’ll need some sort of lever to pry the ball out, I’m sure it’s possible, but probably not the type of challenge the game was intended to present to us.

96

You just need a long standoff with a wedge cut into the end (like alot of people did in SS and TP) and put it on the very edge of your bot, then you just wedge that in between the post and the ball and turn you bot so the entire bot acts like a side of a lever with the pole being the fulcrum, the ball will come out ez

97

would need some testing, I think the other post would get in the way of this sort of prying motion. could be that simple, but I don’t think so. I don’t have a field perimeter to mount any goals too, so I can’t confirm how a robot could descore them.

98

I mean, I wonder why it can scores

99

the definition for a scored ball is as follows:

  • The Ball is fully or partially within the outer edge of the Goal.
  • The Ball is fully below the upper edge of the Goal.
  • The Ball is not contacting the foam tiles outside of the Goal.

the wedged ball meets all of the above, therefore it is scored.

100

Oh I know that thank you

101

There is no space between the poles and side of the ball. Any lever will go above/below this point. Then the curved surface of the ball will direct it upwards/downwards negating the fulcrum/lever function. If a lever (or jousting stick as I envision it) is sharp enough to be effective it’s also dangerous and you know what that means.

Tomorrow I will try and post something that gives an idea just how hard it actually is to remove these things.

102

Could you also post a video of, say, a 4m drive chassis pushing a ball into this position? Thanks.
Also that’s why it has the wedge, so it can get between the ball and the post